blind scanner speeds

[marty 17]

Just wandering what time the different blind scanners take to do a full scan Of C1 (all tv + radio) as Strong is releasing a few blind scanning models They take approximately eight minutes to scan C1 Just like to know how long other decoders Take ??

[siliggy]

Perhaps time the ST120 for you later but have noticed it sometimes does not find everything. A second or third scan with different start and finish freq's is some times needed to make it find more. Sometimes it just fails to find stuff that a manual scan will get.
What good is a scan that is fast but does not find?
I hope to be able to check out the 4653x soon. The Strong site does not have it's software as down loadable. The big question for me about this software is:

Will software alone convert a 4653 to a blind scanner?

[bassett]

Will software alone convert a 4653 to a blind scanner?

In some cases, the right software will give you a "bind scan " feature.
A while ago , it was rummered that @metabox where going to release blind scan software. hasn't happened yet. But who knows. And when you think about it, if it's not contained in the software , where else would it be.

But "blind Scan" rceivers have been round for a while, some are good, some are not. And while speed of the scan might be a prime facture,
Like the Tortoise and the Hare, sometimes speed is not always the best.

I,ve heard some very good reports on the new Hyundai receiver, but haven't tried one out, and I doubt I will, So who knows what it's capabilities are, but they do have a good name, and a 800ci served me well for years.

[comsatman]

You know, its probably not a bad idea to run a comparison with members trying their various blind scanners and posting the results.
We could list local, receiver type, blindscan settings (if various are avail), time taken, and active channels found.

I'll try my 2 later today and post the results.

[SPLog]

Lets see how the older Powtek compares.

Optus C1
Dish 1.2m multi lnb setup pointed at Optus D1

Parameters
freq range 12200 -12750
Symbol rate range 2000 - 45000
Pol - H & V
Search mode - Free+Scrambled

Time take to scan 5 min 45 sec
21 transponders found
200 TV channels found
189 Radio channels found

[Yalickit]

Will software alone convert a 4653 to a blind scanner?

Doubt it. It's usually the tuner then software. With the st120 if you delete all TP's, then it will find the new stuff

[siliggy]

The ST120 took 5 min 30s to do an "all + D" scan from 12200 to 12750 of C1.
Using the normal "all" SR search H and V. 90 dish. crapo uni lnb. I first deleted all the transponders except 12367V and all the channels execpt Aljz. I left it not only because its a pain to put back but to hold the motor in position also.
21 Transponders
280 TV channels.(but a lot of them are just dot points not real channels).
120 Radio

[marty 17]

Thanks for the responses. Silligy What does "all plus D" mean ?? Thanks Marty

[The Pom]

Hi All,

Is this going to prove anything?

Different dish sizes, LNBs, signal quality, freq range used, S/R used will all dictate time taken and number of transponders seen and resultant number of channels found.

If this is to have a level of success some parameters need to be set. Splog did this as a starting platform, but not all of us have a 1.2 KU dish as a norm.

Many of us have a Manhattan of some model, I consider a reasonable Blind Scanner, I used to have a Motek, I gave it away :D

All boxes have different properties and in many cases it can also come down to the hardware and setup external to the box

Cheers

Anyway, while the box scans you can have a beer........or 2

Who cares.

[siliggy]

Thanks for the responses. Silligy What does "all plus D" mean ?? Thanks Marty

FTA + encrypted + Data
The transponders like asiasat3 Ku bigpond come up as "unnamed service"

[marty 17]

So The Beer turns the Powtek into a motek is that Right Pom

[simmo]

I reckon the Fortec would be quicker than the manhatten. I'll fix up a dodgy lead and do some tests too.

[The Pom]

So The Beer turns the Powtek into a motek is that Right Pom


yep :D

With a typo

hey "Drift" how's the Powtek going ;)

[The Pom]

End !!

[FourX]

Bought the new hyundai HSS 760A fta box compared for blind scan speeds it beats the fortec hands down.Has extra options to the fortec as well. User friendly program with plenty info.On down side box drops out every now & again takes a few seconds to pick picture up again.maybe a software glitch.For price happy with quality & performance.

[farmsky]

....On down side box drops out every now & again takes a few seconds to pick picture up again....
Bit of a major negative? Any service?

[Drift]

yep :D

hey "Drift" how's the Powtek going ;)

Ahhhh, tis goin' good mate! :D
Aside from the fact that the left audio channel isn't working any more :confused:
Lazer said that when his Powtek died, the left channel was the first thing to go! Oh noes!

Back on topic..

[FourX]

Farmsky now prompted I will contact vendor .As unit should be 100% too much these days is let go as thats the way it is.Using 1.8m solid Did a simple test with fortec & hyundai through loop on D1 blind scan found same transponders.Hyundai did scan at 2min 5 sec hori & vert fta, fortec 4mins 50 sec same values.Yes you can shorten scan times on fortec.But did test as normal fta scan on both decoders.Also noted fortec is more sensitive in signal strength & quality by about 10%.By no means are these precise figures just out the back in the shed keeping the lips wet.

[simmo]

Where did you buy the Hyundi?

[FourX]

Simmo up your end of the country Sattronics.Postage was from Townsville if my memory serves me well.Oh Simmo the Fortec has taken its rightfull place back in the cool of the living room.

[siliggy]

Doubt it. It's usually the tuner then software. With the st120 if you delete all TP's, then it will find the new stuff

The tuner does seem quite different. From the Strong web site spec sheets:
4653 -25 to -65 dBm.
4653x -25 to -85 dBm.

Deleting trandsponders helps but it still does not find all. unless the scan is repeated with the starting frequency offset by 4MHz. Missed SC7 from d1 with all but 12643 deleted.

[darren2045]

Simmo up your end of the country Sattronics.Postage was from Townsville if my memory serves me well.Oh Simmo the Fortec has taken its rightfull place back in the cool of the living room.

Does this mean a Fortec is "the rools royce?"

[Colin 2905]

The tuner does seem quite different. From the Strong web site spec sheets:
4653 -25 to -65 dBm.
4653x -25 to -85 dBm.

Deleting trandsponders helps but it still does not find all. unless the scan is repeated with the starting frequency offset by 4MHz. Missed SC7 from d1 with all but 12643 deleted.

So what's your verdict on the 4653x? We've just bought a bigger TV that has component inputs ('cause the old 68cm CRT packed it in), and I'm thinking of replacing my XSAT 430 with a 4653x (for SelecTV), but if the blind scanning is up to scratch, it can replace my DigiCrystal as well.

[LeroyPatrol]

Colin, I have the 4658x which I think has a faster processor than the 4653x. I reckon the 4658x is slow. This is compared to the FTA Southern Cross receiver I have. It's probably as slow as the Star 2880B so to give you a bit of an idea. So I use the SC for blind scanning and if I find something i scan it in on the Strong.

Leroy

[farmsky]

How does the Strong scan?

Slowly in 'set' frequency steps (like the Star), or more like your car radio scanning very quickly for carriers (like the Dynasat/S Cross), then pausing and scanning in channels?

[LeroyPatrol]

When the 4658x scans, the TP's come up listed on the screen and then it appears to then scan for channels on the TP's it found. So to answer your question I would say more in set frequency steps. It may only list the TP's it finds as it steps through and then goes back and scans for channels. If you don't have a blind scanner then it's obviously better than nothing but if you can also have some other cheaper blind scanning receiver then thats the way to go I reckon.

Leroy

[Ocean]

I don't believe the frequency "steps" the receiver scans in is an issue !

The receiver bandwidth is always greater then these steps, the receiver pauses and checks for activity when a signal is present within this (effectively variable) broad IF bandwidth. The receiver will (probably) first seek a Stream ID to tell the Digital Signal Processor (DSP) which information packets to sort into the various video and audio streams (Packet IDs or PIDs)

Earlier satellite receivers had a bandwidth of typically 27MHz at a third IF frequency of 470 odd MHz..the early PACE digital receivers (FOX, Austar) used a 3 pin Surface Acoustic Wave (SAW) filter of fixed bandwidth at 480MHz. Early analogue receivers often had several steps of IF bandwidth available, and the user could select the bandwidth to trade-off picture quality versus noise. Modern receivers use a "synthetic" filter and don't even have a third IF, using only DSP which demodulates the QPSK at the selected L band frequency corresponding to the satellite RF signal (+/- the LNB LO frequency).

This is similar to the "direct conversion" receiver principle, and the digital signal processing (brain) in the receiver will adjust the effective receiver bandwidth to accommodate whatever the SR is - which is the signal bandwidth.

This link gives a bit of a clue about how this system works, and indicates the effective IF bandwidth is fifth-order and adjustable from 6 to 43 MHz.

http://download.intel.com/design/celect/prodbrf/31221401.pdf

The application notes for a different chip here :-

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/7919/21831/01015094.pdf

- quotes :- "Fully programmable 2-58 MHz cut-off frequency channel select filter effectively eliminates out-of-channel jammers to increase the linearity and optimize its performance for the 1-45 Msps variable data rates."

The CMOS DSP chips to run at these high speeds have only been available in recent times - it's amazing technology.